City v. Havant

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City v. Havant

Post by Luton Roman on Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:50 pm

Team is Mellor, Bowman, Ball, Gallinagh, Keary, Simpson, Allen, Adlesbury, Pratt, Watkins, Kington.

Subs stearn, Hemmings, Burnell, Slocombe, Rollo.

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by Luton Roman on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:09 pm

0-1

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by pete mac on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:19 pm

One down already and no Artus. Season 4 games in and starting to have a bad feel to it.. .. Plenty of time to turn it around but I never expected this

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by Luton Roman on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:21 pm

Hmm, yeh. Artus ill apparently. Once you get trapped in the bottom 6 or 8 there seems no getting out of it. I'm planning to go to Boreham Wood, Wealdstone and Bish in next 3 weeks, hope I see a goal !

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by kermit on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:24 pm

Luton Roman wrote:Hmm, yeh. Artus ill apparently. Once you get trapped in the bottom 6 or 8 there seems no getting out of it. I'm planning to go to Boreham Wood, Wealdstone and Bish in next 3 weeks, hope I see a goal !
I'm sure you'll see plenty of goals Gerry.............not necessarily in the end you want!
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Re: City v. Havant

Post by Luton Roman on Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:08 pm

0-2, their keeper scores from a drop kick.

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by Luton Roman on Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:33 pm

1-2 andy watkins

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by bonzodog on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:03 pm

Total crap today. Time for new management and they can take Hemmings with them. Withey was class compared with him.

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by coltrane on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:24 pm

An absolutely ghastly game!

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by Roman Mike on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:28 pm

Main threat in 2nd half was Stearn and Bowman on the right.
Until the substitutions.
1) Hemmings brought on. He can only "play" (stand) in one place so Pratt forced out wide right pushing Stearn (who scored 3 against them last season) back into midfield obscurity. If I was him I'd go and play for a team who would recognise and use his talents.
2) Bowman taken off
No threat after that.
H&W manager didn't have to do a thing.
O and 2 comedy goals conceded.
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Re: City v. Havant

Post by BenE on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:32 pm

I am afraid there is little to take out of this game. Mellor and Gallinagh had shockers and you can't do anything if you concede the comical goals we let in. Hemmings is not up to the standard of this league.

Adie and Archie managed to confound the fans, themselves and the players. By my reckoning we played with at least four different back lines during the game. I thought the time for experimentation was pre-season. One thing you absolutely never never never do is make a substitution when you are defending a corner. We got away with it only because Havant were as clueless as we are. They had serious height advantage (and they still had that when hemmings came on) so should have made more from corners.

You have to say this is entirely Adie and Archie's squad. They have continued to build sides that are tinier than any other side in the division. Mind you if Hemmings is their answer stick with the midgets. They have brought in players who can play football but prefer the play a chase into the channels game. Pratt and Watkins play like strangers. There is no interplay between them because they are usually too far apart.

Did they tell Stearn to move over to the left. He was having real success down the right and yet he moved to the other wing. Then they took Bowman off so we had no one down the right side. What is that about?
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Re: City v. Havant

Post by Beau Nash on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:35 pm

Roman Mike wrote:O and 2 comedy goals conceded.
Pity I missed it, full of entertainment even if it was comedy instead of football (and I take no pleasure in saying that). Crying or Very sad
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Re: City v. Havant

Post by BenE on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:46 pm

Charlie Griffin scores twice for Gloucester.
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Re: City v. Havant

Post by Ashley on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:47 pm

Got back to 2-1 then no urgency to press for an equaliser, almost like we settled for a defeat.
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Re: City v. Havant

Post by bonzodog on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:53 pm

Time the supporters grew a pair and started calling for the heads of Britton and Howells.

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by SteveS on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:10 pm

My views remain the same and I saw nothing today to alter them.

Management not getting the best out of players they have.

Muddled tactics.

Personality issues.

Lack of leadership on the field and by management off it.

Not sure how long I can endure this at £12 a time, obviously many feel the same.

Positives - we scored a goal.

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by comrade powell on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:10 pm

Luton Roman wrote: I'm planning to go to Boreham Wood, Wealdstone and Bish in next 3 weeks, hope I see a goal !

And good luck to you, Gerry. Having seen 4 dire performances out of 4, I'm now away for the next 4. Really hope by the time I return, this shocking defence has been sorted (a half decent team would have scored 6 against us today) and the midfield start showing they are up to this level. And please, management, find a decent goalkeeping coach for mellor - the mistakes for the goals were out of character but his distribution has become an embarrassment.
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Re: City v. Havant

Post by RUDI GULITS on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:23 pm

sounds like i was lucky i was getting drowned at Legoland today
instead of watching todays game
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Re: City v. Havant

Post by Terrie K on Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:34 pm

Haven't been to TP this season as short of cash - glad I didn't waste my time and money today.
Will follow from afar until there is anything worth spending my hard earned dosh on!

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by LB on Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:53 pm

Richard111 wrote:Time the supporters grew a pair and started calling for the heads of Britton and Howells.

I see that Richard111 is a fairly new poster, or he would know that a number of people on here have been calling for a change of management for some time. I am not sure how much longer the argument that we should be grateful to Howells and Britton because they do the job for nothing and we can't afford to pay a manager without reducing the playing budget can be sustained - after all, we all know what you get if you pay peanuts...!

Seriously though, it is hard to know what to say about today that hasn't been said in the previous posts. Some people have commented that Havant were poor - to be honest I don't think they got out of second gear except for a brief spell in the second half when we pushed them back. I agree with others that there was no urgency after we had scored - it was almost like we treated the goal as a late consolation rather than a lifeline with 20 or so minutes to go.  

I am reluctant to single players out for criticism on here, but if Hemmings is the answer it must have been a very silly question. He lacks mobility and for a player of his height doesn't seem that good in the air either. If he was signed to give us a player to counter the 'large' opponents that we meet every week then we need to change our game to accommodate him.

Is there any cause for optimism? Well, we could look back 40 years to the 1973/74 season when City lost 6 of their first 8 games and went on to clinch promotion on the final day of the season. That came after a change of manager, but the Southern League First Division South in those days was a totally different beast to Conference South today.

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by BenE on Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:59 pm

I've had time to think about it now and my main concern is that the already dwindling crowds will fall further.

To be perfectly frank the opportunity of 125 years is being lost.

The club's solution last time questions were raised about the management was to change the deck chairs. Adie and Archie's job names were changed and that was it.

Where are we now? In possibly a worse position with less fans.

How can it be turned round? By stopping conceding goals. Three draws on the trot would be fine as it would give the defence confidence. They are shot to pieces at the moment. Play Dave Pratt up on his own and flood the midfield. It won't be pretty but nor was today.
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Re: City v. Havant

Post by Dodgycarpet on Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:22 pm

someone mentioned Adie and Archie do the job for no pay.  I thought it was just Adie?
I never saw a problem with Adie going to the director of football post - but as anybody in a high level post would have to do he has to seriously push Archie as to how he will coach the players to perform better and if it doesn't happen the club is more important than the individual relationship.  Would be a bit harsh to sack anyone after 4 games though.... (with the caveat I haven't seen any of them of course)

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by Marc Monitor on Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:24 pm

Right, there is a lot to talk about today and I expect I will miss something.

Firstly, Mellor and especially Gallinagh had total 'mares today. Mellor redeemed himself somewhat but it was hard to tell whether Gallinagh has wasn't at the races because of his part in the screw-up for the first goal or whether he was like that beforehand and that caused the cock-up. The five at the back was rubbish with no-one knowing what they were supposed to be doing. There were unmarked forwards and midfielders all over the shop.

After a totally appalling first half, the management made a positive change, which I would never have expected, bringing on Stearn for Gallinagh and going four at the back and having a more attacking set-up.

Of course, the freak comedy goal straight from Havant's keeper happened almost straight away and, again, it was Mellor's fault due to him coming out too soon. I like Mellor and he is, apart from his kicking, a great keeper but he has to hold his hands up today even thought he saved us going down to more goals.

After that, however, and Stearn really showed what a difference he can make. Not only did he run at H & W more causing them hassles but he brought the best out of both Pratt - that header against the bar being the best football of the game - but also Watkins who had been anonymous previously. Whatever Stearn's deficiencies, he works well with the other front two and the shot rate and quality of attacking increased greatly when he came on. Pratt had been his usual dependable hard-running self but even he played much better when Stearn came on. The only thing I would say is that Stearn was trying to do everything, tracking back and tackling when I would like to see him pressuring the defenders and keeper and making them play the ball before they want to.

After Watkins well-taken goal, we just got worse though. After all our best movement coming on the right, the management team took Bowman off - after he got into a great attacking position - and put Stearn on the left. We also put Slocombe at left back and didn't change anything else around. By my reckoning, we ended up with a back four that read like this - CB - LB - RB - CB. If we had won that would have been genius but it looked more like we were going to concede another one. Of course, in amongst that, we had the seemingly totally ineffectual Hemmings on as well.

Before these ludicrous substitutions in the last 10 minutes, we looked pretty good actually, probably the best we have played all season. Mellor had redeemed himself , Bowman was getting forward well and defending ok, Ball was fine when he wasn't put in a position he didn't understand, I was impressed with Keary, Simpson was his usual dependable self and probably MOTM (was one announced?), Allen and Adelsbury were fairly anonymous (but, to be fair, that is the best we get out of the latter), Kington had no confidence at all and Pratt, Watkins and Stearn were working well. However, after the substitutions, the players had the same confused expressions as a dog being shown a card trick.

The front players can't be faulted really, certainly not on the second half performance. There wasn't too much wrong with the midfield. Mellor and Gallanagh put the rest of the team up against it with giving away two goals that a pretty profligate team were never going to match.

However, my main issue is the substitutions. Genuinely fair play for the half-time changes but the ones in the last 10 minutes simply beggar belief. Any attacking potential we had was completely lost by extracting the players from the area we were doing well in and then bringing on a player who has shown nothing so far in the season.

The crux of the matter is that Howells and, especially, Britton appear to be a busted flush and, with tactics and substitutions like today, they are hardly likely to re-instil confidence in the players. The elephant in the room is that the club keep them on because they work for free. As much as I say football supporters don't just turn up for successful teams, we are in free-fall, not because of the loss today but because of the bizarre selections and the lack of effective management beforehand. We have two away games and then what should be a well-attended non-league Day match. However, I don't hold much hope for results or attendance.

I am not even sure what to recommend. Britton is obviously still holding the strings, Howells is ineffectual and Rollo is the only one, on match days, that is the least bit animated. I am not even sure what Rollo's real role is but, for want of anything else, I would say he may be the logical next step.
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Re: City v. Havant

Post by SteveS on Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:52 am

Pretty fair summary there from MarcM. The players are better than the performances, but you can see they are as confused as most of the supporters by the muddled tactics. Mellor has his weakness's but he does save us on many occasions. Just after the first goal he made a very good save when we let the no 9 clean through and he should have scored. He is not helped as there is no organiser at the back, or anywhere for that matter. Keary looked ok defensively but his distribution was poor, but I do think he will make a good player at this level with experience.
As MM said take out Pratt and Simpson who put in their usual shift and that was about it. Stearn is obviously frustrated and tries to do too much when he comes on but got them rattled on the right, so he is then swithched to the left - why?
Difficult to see where we go from here, my view is that with non league / part time players you only have minimal training time once ther season starts so you need to decide how you are going to play preseason and stick to your plan. With us we not only change the plan from game to game we change it during games, no wonder everyone looks confused.
I remember a converstion many years ago with Paul Bodin when he was manager. Paul was a good coach. He said his favoured formation was wing backs but that formation took a lot of work and training to get it working properly and he felt that with part time players he did not have sufficient time with then to do this. Hence he played a flat back 4 whilst he was here. I think he is correct.

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Re: City v. Havant

Post by comrade powell on Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:15 am

Yes, very good summary Marc! I assume Kelston Koppite is still in cricket mode, but you make a far more effective substitute than some we saw yesterday. The only thing I disagree on is the marked improvement you mentioned in the 2nd half. Yes, we looked more effective going forward and well done to Stearn for making things happen. However, even a limited side like Havant looked like they were playing within themselves and yet looked capable of picking us off at will.

No doubt the calls for a change of management will get louder as this dreadful run continues. And yet they oversaw a run of 7 wins in 10 games at the end of last season. Are they now doing things that differently? Were the players released better than the ones brought in? I suppose Marc's suggestion that Jim Rollo steps into Archie's shoes is a possible scenario. But those calling for Adie's removal are likely to have a long wait, as he is so integral to the structure of the club.

We were recently debating the pros and cons of players giving each other rollickings during games. The point made to me was that it kept players on their toes. Maybe, but I'm even less convinced after some of the exchanges witnessed yesterday. To me, the team spirit seems sadly lacking. Not sure what the answer to that is, but if there is any use for a captain in football, now is the time for him to earn his corn. I was frequently reminded yesterday of school teams I used to run where the most mouthy kids ran the roost. The bubble is non existent at the moment...
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