Home Grown Talent or Buy In

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Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by BathMan on Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:29 am

So first Aden Baldwin 18 year old, and then Jack Smith at 18 years old, and now on loan Jack Batten 19 year old, in our back 4 its a very young defence, all arrived from other academy set ups.

I'm not complaining as talent is not restricted by age but surely this move brings into discussion what are we doing with all our young guns waiting in the wings that bench warm for us when players are injured or just unavailable due to other commitments.

I understand the links with local colleges is also important but its clear the better players are dropping out of the other academies.

Are we clear with the first team policy (I agree with this) of using the best available over our own academy system, or is it just that our kids are just not good enough !!!

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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by Marc Monitor on Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:20 pm

Slightly different but I have mentioned ad infinitum that, over the years, we have missed out on Scott Sinclair, Ashley Barnes and Tyrone Mings. Ok, the first was to Rovers which is fair enough but the latter two were to Yate and Paulton which is disappointing. I don't have any real insight or experience with the academy but there does appear to be issues. We have had Bowman and Keats and that is pretty much it, isn't it?
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by pete mac on Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:12 pm

These are players from teams higher up the pyramid. Better quality than our youth?

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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by BathMan on Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:37 pm

Didn't Bowman come from Southampton, i agree higher up the pyramid is available so why not use them as better quality, so why create expectation for kids that will never make it, its a feeder to lower leagues at best.

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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by BenE on Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:18 pm

Nail on head. What is the point of our much trumpeted youth system? Are all the better local players going to the Bristol clubs?
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by Bristol Mike on Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:36 pm

BathMan wrote:Didn't Bowman come from Southampton, i agree higher up the pyramid is available so why not use them as better quality, so why create expectation for kids that will never make it, its a feeder to lower leagues at best.

And Keats came from Exeter

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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by BathMan on Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:51 pm

I see they went for Rollo on the bench today, so no young guns from U21 or U18 there, must be the policy as just not good enough

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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by 2weirdtown on Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:34 am

Possibly they had games elsewhere? If so better than warming the bench.
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by stillmanjunior on Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:31 am

2weirdtown wrote:Possibly they had games elsewhere?  If so better than warming the bench.

I think that's the view of the management and it's right, in my opinion. The Academy had a game in the morning, they beat Forest Green, who were previously unbeaten.

I've said it before - the leap from Academy to first team is too big, it is completely different. I haven't seen much of the youth games this season. Some of the players from the last couple are now on loan/dual registration with Southern League clubs. Sloggett is at Evesham (or at least he was last I heard) and Gibbons, if he's still our player, seems to be getting regular games at Mangotsfield.
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by BenE on Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:35 am

So is it in fact possible to develop from the U21s to the first 11?

The evidence would say not. Hence any talk of home grown talent is a waste of breath.
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by stillmanjunior on Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:40 am

You're talking about a different genre - academy is under 18s. Development squad play on random afternoons sometimes I think at the uni but I haven't seen them play so can't tell which players stand a chance.
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by BenE on Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:08 am

I don't know what I'm talking about to be honest.

Have we got a youth development set up or not?

Or is it just a youth team that play in Bath City colours?
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by comrade powell on Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:10 am

Yes, I'm sure the jump from Academy to first team is too great but we shouldn't be discussing that 'genre' in this debate, but the under 21 squad. If we can't utilise that group, then the club really need to be asking itself what the point of it is. And I don't mean simply using its players in county cup games, but in league fixtures. Those who support the present club policy need to look at a player like Yeoman - he has offered us nothing since Torquay managed to persuade us to take him off their hands for a month. Would it not have been preferable to trial a striker from the under 21s instead? The same applies to the third player who joined us a few weeks back - John - who has managed to see even less action than the unfortunate Barrow. I wonder how many of these players are going to come through the revolving door this season...
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by striped67 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:29 pm

This discussion started me wondering what the set up actually is. I came across these links - presumably these partnerships are still active.

U21 Development Squad Partnership with University of Bath for University Students at U21 level
Bath City Acadamy Partnership with Bath College at U19 level
Bath City Youth U16 level
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by striped67 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:33 pm

Dan Bowman is a Bath University student so presumably came through the development squad link. I would imagine it's a bit hit-and-miss as to what calibre players happen to be studying at the Uni.
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by BathMan on Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:37 pm

Game in the morning granted but any other club pick the best players available for first team action "First" then back fill. Moving players up will allow for other players to move in at the bottom. That is a good policy that both benefit the players and club. Jack Batten payed for us the weekend although Bristol City could have done with him for their under 21 squad, why because Bristol see his development over a none important win !!!

How many Bath 18 year olds played against FGR in the morning could have taken part in the first team squad !!! if none then we are answering our own question. U21 is a university team restricted by academic qualifications rather than talent (more likely as none are involved) and our under 18s are a group of college kids likewise and we look to Bristol and Southampton to pull in their better kids that drop out of the system.
I have no problem with that just don't see a players path way from under 18

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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by BathMan on Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:50 pm

striped67 wrote:Dan Bowman is a Bath University student so presumably came through the development squad link. I would imagine it's a bit hit-and-miss as to what calibre players happen to be studying at the Uni.

Dan was released from Southampton FC 3 years ago

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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by Micawber on Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:32 pm

What is the setup at WSM? They seem to have a few players come through to the first team from their "academy ". Bradley Ash is scoring plenty of goals for them lately but not sure what his background is.

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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by BathMan on Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:09 pm

They run a post 16 academy but don't brand it to the club as you can read about it on their website , its as many college kids that they can get government grants for, they call it WESTON COLLEGE YOUTH ACADEMY in association with WSM FC. the club then run a team in the Somerset Floodlit League Premier division, with some of the college kids, and kids from their teams in the Saturday Junior Premier League.

Looks like the align the youth teams with the first team a little better than ours but i would still think if a Rovers or City kid dropped on them they would snap him up like us.

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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by stillmanjunior on Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:04 pm

At the back end of last season someone offered to run an interview with Che Wilson about the Development Squad, as I believe he was based at the Uni. I think Che became a father around the time the interview was meant to take place so it's gone on the back burner. I'll see if he or Billy would be willing to answer a few questions for a future programme.
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by BenE on Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:18 pm

that would be good. good thinking.
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by Marc Monitor on Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:43 pm

Is this Che Wilson who used to play for Norwich City? What's his position?
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by kermit on Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:43 pm

Left back Wink
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by Floggy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:58 pm

Hi
Regarding Jacob Sloggett I can give a bit of background
He was capitain of the U18 last year and played a few pre season friendlies as I'm sure you know.
As a young child he was offered a place in all the local academies but chose to go down the Jamie shore route to keep his options open.
Playing in Germany aged 12, he tore his cruciate then couldn't play for a year.
When he returned he suffered with Osgood sclatters which meant for the next year he played off and on.
At 14 he signed for Bristol City and, was offered an apprenticeship with them. However, he turned it down and instead chose to join bath as it enabled him to do his A Levels whilst playing.
He really benefitted from his choice and thinks bath is a great club.
This year he took up a place at Gloucester uni reading sports coaching.
He plays for the uni first team and Evesham
Men's football is a definite step up from u18, in pace and aggression. He is a creative player and is learning to adjust to the new conditions.

Disappointingly, I don't believe he has heard from bath to enquire how he is adjusting although to be fair, they may be getting feedback from Evesham that he is not aware of.
As a player, all he wants to do is play, not sit on a bench.
And when he goes on he will give 100% every time. Just sometimes you have bad days when things you try don't come off.

I know Jacob reasonably well .





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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

Post by BenE on Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:24 pm

Do you mean a step up in pace or a reduction in time on the ball ie you are closed down quickly? In my experience the younger the quicker
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Re: Home Grown Talent or Buy In

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