Re: DAY OF SOLIDARITY FOR REFUGEES - TWERTON PARK - SATURDAY 12TH SEPTEMBER

[Marc Monitor]

Perhaps, in football, a defeat is expected at some point, especially after such a great unbeaten run, whereas helping those in need and/or the democratic processes that control the Supporters' Society that will, hopefully, end up running the club are, in the long-term, more important. Someone asked me where I would like the team to be this season and I said that I would like exactly the same league position but to be a wholly community owned club.

All of life is in football and football is all about life. There are so many examples of where football has influenced the wider world and the wider world has influenced football. Football doesn't exist in a vacuum. Sometimes football is about more than who is playing at left back on Saturday. That is why it is ace.

I am saying this, by the way, as an individual, not as a leading member of the Bid or as a Society committee member.

[Peter Newman]

1. Steve  has mentioned I was factually incorrect in stating that an asylum seeker was required to seek asylum in the first safe country they reach as the UN convention  does not stipulate this requirement. Totally accept this is the case but my posting related to how a refugee was dealt with on arrival in an EU member state and that is covered by the Dublin agreement. My understanding is this agreements  states the responsibility for processing the initial claim for asylum lies with the first EU state of arrival. The registration process as I have read  includes finger printing so that it is possible to track the  individual to the   initial processing country and that is why  some individuals have, reportedly, gone to lengths such as applying acid to their fingers. Since those in Calais had most likely arrived and been processed elsewhere other than France   my understanding is they have, through their   actions   lost,  or forfeited,  their formal  refugee  status as they have voluntarily moved from the EU nation that was responsible for dealing with their application,  The Dublin agreement does, I believe  allow for  a migrant to be returned to the  country where they were initially processed.

2, A major factor in the current chaos in central  Europe is that Frau Merkel has stated  Germany is abandoning the  requirements of  the Dublin agreement but only for Syrian refugees. This is the reason for  the  current charge through those  countries located to the south-east of  Germany.  It’s almost as if these countries are being invaded by Germany  by  proxy. Obviously the  whole Dublin agreement is now proving unworkable as it never envisaged dealing with such numbers as at present..  

3. I do feel that Steve’s response that, unlike most of the population,   I was  unable  or unwilling to  differentiate between migrants and refugees was unfair  and rather disparaging  as it inferred I was some sort of  uneducated  bigot.  A number of  people (both on here ) and in real life have  told me  that they interpreted  it in the same way.    

4. I must also admit that I, like others, assumed Steve was a Society committee member  perhaps reinforced by the fact he made the initial posting on this thread..

5. I still believe the decision to support what I expect will turn out to be a short-lived Solidarity campaign has a political element attached to it.   Let’s face it there is no way the Society would have supported an equivalent anti-Solidarity campaign.

[Marc Monitor]

To be honest, you are exactly right on the last point. Also, seeing the bad publicity that supporters who are holding up "Refugees not welcome" are getting, we would be right not to, even if you were to take out the humanitarian aspect. Also when talking about political parties, I realised that, although I was talking about being inclusive to all political parties, I would be very loath to accept money off of, say, UKIP or let them get publicity from any association with Bath City and, obviously, even more so with the BNP.

You have raised an excellent point, Peter, and one which, fairly obviously, the Supporters' Society are going to consider. Clearly, there is a Constitution, which Oliver has outlined, which should make it relatively easy to see whether such events, appeals, drives and opportunities fall within its remit.

Personally, I think that, of course, there should have been a collection for refugees but, perhaps, if it is decided that the Supporters' Society can't endorse such appeals, there is room for individuals or groups to approach the club separately.

[LB]

This is getting seriously boring now.

Isn't it time that this thread was moved to the 'non football' part of the forum where Marc and Peter can carry on this discussion and the rest of us can concentrate on what the forum was set up for?

[Marc Monitor]

Peter raises questions about the Supporters' Society who may be running the club. If you don't like it. no-one is forcing you to click on the thread

[Admin]

Isn't it time that this thread was moved to the 'non football' part of the forum where Marc and Peter can carry on this discussion and the rest of us can concentrate on what the forum was set up for?

Agree that this is veering away from being football related, so has been moved to the non-football section.

[Peter Newman]

I thought LB had a valid point and it is probably better located here.

I was in two minds whether or not to extend the discussion by making  my previous post but felt that I was entitled to respond to what I considered to be Steve's unfair criticism.

Sorry LB - I've just added another comment.

[LB]

Peter - no need to apologise, I am quite happy for you and Marc to carry on discussing this for as long as you want. I just didn't think that it was proper to the main part of the forum, and I am pleased that Admin took that on board.

[Marc Monitor]

Unfortunately, the move means that email notifications for this thread haven't come through so I have to add another comment to get any more email notifications. Ho hum.

[Admin]

Unfortunately, the move means that email notifications for this thread haven't come through so I have to add another comment to get any more email notifications. Ho hum.

Thank for the feedback Marc. If I'd done it in a slightly different way it might have preserved the notifications, so something to watch out for next time. For anyone else that wants to resubscribe to notifications without the need for posting, there is a link near the bottom of each page "Watch this topic for replies" that you can click.

[Marc Monitor]

Cheers for that. I suppose I haven't noticed that because, whenever I am involved in a thread, it just says "Stop watching this topic"

[BenE]

No, i think you are missing my point.

Although you are right, that doesn't make it 'apolitical', we have to ensure that we aren't endorsing one party or another. Maybe 'politically neutral' is a better phrase. It is certainly something we are going to monitor and have checks and balances in place. However, I still maintain that the refugee collection was, let's say, politically neutral.

My point is that there is major difference between Politics, where people who hold up -Refugees not Welcome - banners are heckled for example, and Party Politics. Many people cannot distinguish between the two.

[Marc Monitor]

I would agree with that. It is the difference between small p politics and large P (party) politics.

In retrospect, there is a difference, perhaps, between holding a collection for refugees which people are free to ignore and holding up a "Refugees Welcome" banner which is, of course, overtly political.

I will see if any other clubs' Supporters' Societies organised their Refugee day of Solidarity or whether it was unaffiliated supporters' groups.

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