Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

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Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by comrade powell on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:35 pm

Nice one!


Last edited by comrade powell on Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by comrade powell on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:40 pm

Hmm... Assumed they were replaying but the original tie was postponed. From the Margate website...

The club can confirm that this Saturday's FA Trophy tie against Bowers and Pitsea Football Club has been postponed due to our visitors being charged with fielding a player whilst under suspension.

The club is awaiting further information regarding the charge which will be heard at Wembley on Wednesday 15th November 2017.
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by stillmanjunior on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:48 pm

Bowers & Pitsea beat Egham Town in the previous round, so could see them re-instated?

Whoever it is, fingers crossed we don't draw... Margate on a Tuesday in November for the second time in three years doesn't appeal. And it's a horrendous spot to commentate from. At least the others would be a new ground to tick off.
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by comrade powell on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:59 pm

Let's hope when Margate eventually play their game next Tuesday that there is a result or that the FA force them to replay on the Thursday!
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by Luton Roman on Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:02 pm

Poor old Hungerford get Billericay again, as they did in the FA cup.

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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by Ashley on Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:06 pm

There's some pretty tough draws about for teams in our league:

Wealdstone v Chelmsford
Hungerford v Billericay
Whitehawk v Chippenham
Welling v WsM
Oxford v Hereford (possibly)


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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by comrade powell on Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:09 pm

Sounds like the Egham/Bowers tie was a classic of mishaps. The suspended player appeared in the 1-1 draw at Bowers and scored. The replay was postponed due to floodlight failure and it all kicked off when it was rescheduled...

http://www.eghamtownfcltd.com/news/egham-town-3-bowers-pitsea-5-aet-ft-2-2-2066808.html
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by yuffie on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:50 pm

Can't complain too much about that draw and, if it is Margate (as their website already seems to assume to will be), at least A Boy Name Nikki isn't their manager anymore.

Four successive home draws in the major cup competitions must be a record.

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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by Twerton Park Magic on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:55 pm

Well is it? (a record).

The report of the Egham-Bowers match on Egham web-site worth reading. I was left as puzzled as I'm sure the crowd were as to how they got to that result.

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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by LB on Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:55 pm

comrade powell wrote:Sounds like the Egham/Bowers tie was a classic of mishaps. The suspended player appeared in the 1-1 draw at Bowers and scored. The replay was postponed due to floodlight failure and it all kicked off when it was rescheduled...

http://www.eghamtownfcltd.com/news/egham-town-3-bowers-pitsea-5-aet-ft-2-2-2066808.html

As the suspended player scored, hard to think that Bowers will be allowed to stay in, but with the F A who knows - hopefully they won’t be made to play Egham again! The report on the replay was nearly as epic as the game itself.

The best part of the whole thing though is that Egham’s nickname is ‘the Sarnies’ - took me a while!

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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by stillmanjunior on Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:47 pm

Twerton Park Magic wrote:Well is it? (a record).

Nope, it last happened in the 1996/97 season:
18 Jan Saturday FA Trophy 1 Stevenage Borough
26 Oct Saturday FA Cup 4Q Cheltenham Town
12 Oct Saturday FA Cup 3Q Cirencester Town
28 Sep Saturday FA Cup 2Q Newport AFC
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by Palms on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:43 pm

stillmanjunior wrote:
Twerton Park Magic wrote:Well is it? (a record).

Nope, it last happened in the 1996/97 season:
18 Jan Saturday FA Trophy 1 Stevenage Borough
26 Oct Saturday FA Cup 4Q Cheltenham Town
12 Oct Saturday FA Cup 3Q Cirencester Town
28 Sep Saturday FA Cup 2Q Newport AFC


Does that include draws made before we've lost a replay?
I've been mildly convinced for a while that most of these qualifying round draws where the FA refuse to even stream them live with a phone let alone broadcast them are somewhat fixed. I'm sure the FA must've read my research a season or two back that showed a near 70% bias for drawing us away in Cup and Trophy for the previous 8 or so seasons, over 70 when including Somerset Cup draws. They know I was on to them, hence the recent favourable draws, bar Gateshead.
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by Twerton Park Magic on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:22 am

Thanks Junior - knew I could rely on you. Can we have a new picture please - like a pair of old boots hanging on a changing room peg?
Useless fact - Egham is local club for Runnymede and Magna Carta, so they had fair choice of nicknames! But Sarnies is nice.

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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by stillmanjunior on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:12 am

Palms wrote:
stillmanjunior wrote:
Twerton Park Magic wrote:Well is it? (a record).

Nope, it last happened in the 1996/97 season:
18 Jan Saturday FA Trophy 1 Stevenage Borough
26 Oct Saturday FA Cup 4Q Cheltenham Town
12 Oct Saturday FA Cup 3Q Cirencester Town
28 Sep Saturday FA Cup 2Q Newport AFC


Does that include draws made before we've lost a replay?
I've been mildly convinced for a while that most of these qualifying round draws where the FA refuse to even stream them live with a phone let alone broadcast them are somewhat fixed. I'm sure the FA must've read my research a season or two back that showed a near 70% bias for drawing us away in Cup and Trophy for the previous 8 or so seasons, over 70 when including Somerset Cup draws. They know I was on to them, hence the recent favourable draws, bar Gateshead.

Had we beaten Cheltenham we would have been away to Peterborough.
Had we beaten Stevenage we would have been away to Boreham Wood.

As for others in between? Not sure. I’m sure I’ll find time to look later, sadly.
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by kermit on Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:57 pm

From the Margate site. If, if, if.....but we may not have a game on Saturday week, if appeals and/or replays come to fruition.

On Wednesday 15th November, Margate FC received correspondence from The Football Association informing us that Bowers and Pitsea have been removed from The FA Trophy competition, subject to appeal.

Bowers and Pitsea have until 12pm on Friday 17th November to appeal this decision.

If Bowers and Pitsea elect not to appeal the decision, Margate FC will host Egham at Hartsdown Park on Tuesday 21st November, meaning our Bostik League trip to Tooting and Mitcham will be re-arranged.

The winner of this tie will then go on to face Bath City away on Saturday 25th November.

If Bowers and Pitsea elect to appeal, depending on the outcome, the second qualifying round game will take place at Hartsdown Park on Saturday 25th November.

The club will continue to monitor the situation, providing information to fans when available and appropriate.
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by Luton Roman on Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:05 pm

Bowers site say they will appeal.

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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by LB on Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:47 pm

Interesting to know the basis for Bowers’ appeal. If they did field a suspended player (even if he didn’t score) it would seem fairly cut and dried so presumably there is more to it than that.

I suppose the only consolation for us if Margate and Bowers or Egham don’t play until the 25th is that whichever of them travels to Twerton will almost certainly have to do it on a Tuesday rather than a Saturday.

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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by yuffie on Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:16 pm

Here's Bower & Pitsea's reasoning. Not sure the tone will help their appeal.

Here is what actually happened which the FA have not taken into consideration because in their eyes they can do no wrong:

We as a club signed a player (who does not need to be named and has no fault in this process )from Romford FC, eight games into the current season and the secretary checked the FA and county FA websites to see if the player had any suspensions pending, which he did not according to their own websites.
The members service (FA Site) site did not show any information and the FA suspension list also did not show any suspensions for this player.
The player received two bookings in separate games for Bowers & Pitsea and on the FA website (members service) it showed that he had only accumulated two for the season so far.
I was then asked by our Manager to check all the new players that we had signed recently for bookings and asked the clubs involved if they could confirm the numbers to me.
I was informed by Romford FC that the player had accumulated four bookings in the seven games that he had played for them from the start of the season and was panicked by this as he had not been given a suspension by the FA or the County on reaching five bookings.

I know the FA deal with our bookings and suspensions, but I wanted to check both sites to be certain. I had asked Romford to confirm these details when we first signed the player but which they did. I had previously asked another club the same question and they told me a number that we later found was also wrong as the members site had the player down as three bookings and not two as the secretary of this club had informed me.

The game, if he had been given a suspension should have been the 28th October 2017 which the player played in because we were unaware of any suspension and there was no communication from the FA to say that this was the case. I know that at this point I should have stopped him playing but I did not know about the four bookings from previous so did not. I then contacted the FA and got this reply from Jill Roberts at the FA. And she told me that:
“the player has two separate records running. One has two cautions on and the other 4.”

she also sent me dates. She told me the player must miss the next fixture and asked me to write to the FA to explain what had happened and that he had played in a game on the 28th whilst he should have been under suspension which I knew nothing about.

After I received confirmation from Romford FC after the event I then contacted the FA. It seems they were unaware that the player was suspended until I informed them about my concerns and they told me the player had two records running in line with each other.

This has since happened again with a player receiving two bookings for a club and three for Bowers but the system telling me he has only three for the season, this time I have stopped him playing because I know he has five bookings in total.

We make sure that any player who receives enough bookings or red cards misses the games as per the rules but in this case, I and the club were unaware that he had received the four cautions, the systems did not show it and it is only because we approached the FA to query this that it has come to light.

After I informed the FA we were hit with a charge for the club and a charge for the player for playing in a game where the player was suspended and removed from the FA Trophy. The player and the club are not at fault, it is the FA's error and they should admit this. We have been hit heavily with fines and the player must now miss another game.

Our great FA cannot admit when they are wrong and have punished us for something we did not do, how many other clubs out there have been treated this way, it's time this stopped.

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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by kermit on Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:38 pm

yuffie wrote:Here's Bower & Pitsea's reasoning. Not sure the tone will help their appeal.

Here is what actually happened which the FA have not taken into consideration because in their eyes they can do no wrong:

We as a club signed a player (who does not need to be named and has no fault in this process )from Romford FC, eight games into the current season and the secretary checked the FA and county FA websites to see if the player had any suspensions pending, which he did not according to their own websites.
The members service (FA Site) site did not show any information and the FA suspension list also did not show any suspensions for this player.
The player received two bookings in separate games for Bowers & Pitsea and on the FA website (members service) it showed that he had only accumulated two for the season so far.
I was then asked by our Manager to check all the new players that we had signed recently for bookings and asked the clubs involved if they could confirm the numbers to me.
I was informed by Romford FC that the player had accumulated four bookings in the seven games that he had played for them from the start of the season and was panicked by this as he had not been given a suspension by the FA or the County on reaching five bookings.

I know the FA deal with our bookings and suspensions, but I wanted to check both sites to be certain. I had asked Romford to confirm these details when we first signed the player but which they did. I had previously asked another club the same question and they told me a number that we later found was also wrong as the members site had the player down as three bookings and not two as the secretary of this club had informed me.

The game, if he had been given a suspension should have been the 28th October 2017 which the player played in because we were unaware of any suspension and there was no communication from the FA to say that this was the case. I know that at this point I should have stopped him playing but I did not know about the four bookings from previous so did not. I then contacted the FA and got this reply from Jill Roberts at the FA. And she told me that:
“the player has two separate records running. One has two cautions on and the other 4.”

she also sent me dates. She told me the player must miss the next fixture and asked me to write to the FA to explain what had happened and that he had played in a game on the 28th whilst he should have been under suspension which I knew nothing about.

After I received confirmation from Romford FC after the event I then contacted the FA. It seems they were unaware that the player was suspended until I informed them about my concerns and they told me the player had two records running in line with each other.

This has since happened again with a player receiving two bookings for a club and three for Bowers but the system telling me he has only three for the season, this time I have stopped him playing because I know he has five bookings in total.

We make sure that any player who receives enough bookings or red cards misses the games as per the rules but in this case, I and the club were unaware that he had received the four cautions, the systems did not show it and it is only because we approached the FA to query this that it has come to light.

After I informed the FA we were hit with a charge for the club and a charge for the player for playing in a game where the player was suspended and removed from the FA Trophy. The player and the club are not at fault, it is the FA's error and they should admit this. We have been hit heavily with fines and the player must now miss another game.

Our great FA cannot admit when they are wrong and have punished us for something we did not do, how many other clubs out there have been treated this way, it's time this stopped.
Yes, the tone is unlikely to impress the suits of the FA should they ever read it, but they do appear to have a good case to appeal. Of course it'll be a waste of time and money, and we won't be able to arrange our tie until after a possible replay date between the Sarnies and Ourgate.
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by Luton Roman on Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:44 pm

The player does seem to get booked a lot !

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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by kermit on Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:56 pm

Luton Roman wrote:The player does seem to get booked a lot !
Not compared with Grantley or Hoggy....but as they haven't named the player, perhaps it's our ex Roman !!
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by stillmanjunior on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:05 pm

I can see their point, but couldn't the player have stepped forward and said "I might be close to five bookings, here."

There have been countless problems in the past with the FA's system, I recall Chippenham being kicked out of the FA Cup a few years ago because of some admin error. It needs sorting but Bowers & Pitsea have done themselves no favours if the FA stumble across their posting.
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by yuffie on Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:01 am

And this from their manager in the local paper. They certainly know who to try and win friends.

From the highest of highs to the lowest of lows. A week in the life at Bowers & Pitsea!

When you see news that a club has been charged with what we have (rule E10 - failure to comply with an automatic suspension), you only see the black and white.

You don’t see the administrative errors outside of our control, you don’t see that we brought this to the attention of the powers that be before the FA Trophy replay at Egham Town and you don’t see the disappointment it brings to all involved at our club.

I’ve got to say, if it wasn’t classless enough for Margate’s Twitter to announce the news within minutes of a charge being brought against us, the person responsible for Egham Town’s Twitter should hang their head in shame for publishing details the way they did.

I appreciate Margate’s need to share the news with their supporters ahead of the weekend, although it wouldn’t have hurt to sit tight for more than five minutes, but for Egham to post the details, including the player’s name, is shameful. That really did leave a sour taste in the mouth.

Hopefully common sense will prevail at the hearing tomorrow.

If it doesn’t, then we will do what we have always done and pick ourselves up and go again.

Of course, there are always a minority that take pleasure at things like this. All I will say is it has all been noted. I’m always so grateful to those people because they keep us honest and motivate us in these difficult moments.

It would be easy for our players to use this disappointment as an excuse to throw the towel in but, if anything, this will make them even stronger. Their conduct in the last few days makes me a very proud manager.

And the player is Jamie Dicks. Must be a relation!

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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by Beau Nash on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:59 am

I then contacted the FA and got this reply from Jill Roberts at the FA. And she told me that:“the player has two separate records running. One has two cautions on and the other 4.”

Why does an individual player have TWO records? This appears to be a big problem in the FA administration system.  

I often find similar problems where system designers / programmers have failed to analyse results.  Example: an ISP where their use of one IP address for multiple customers caused access and use problems for all sharing that particular IP when the ISP sanctioned ONE of the customers.  
Senior management in many spheres of life, particularly in UK Government at all levels, ranges from inept to criminally negligent and worse.
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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

Post by LB on Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:26 pm

Doesn’t look from Google that Jamie Dicks is related to Julian or Grantley, but on the Romford F C website he was described as a ‘regular yellow card collector’!

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Re: Home to Margate or Bowers & Pitsea (or even Egham) in the Trophy!

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